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klyne

Petition against new Motorhome Tax

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It would seem having a Euro 6 engine is no longer a benefit, probably robbed the treasury of much fake emissions tax so more than one way to skin a cat.

Are there any figures on how many motorhomes are registered in the UK? 100,000 signatures seems a distant target.

I did sign for what its worth.

Brian

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As I am living outside of the UK, I dont think that I am allowed to sign the petition. If I could I would.

 

Tax on new Motorhomes was raised here last year. Very roughly, from about £600 pa to something in the region of £2500 pa. for the first three years. As bikerbri so rightly put it, it seems that the benefit of having a Euro 6 is reduced. The only benefit I can think of offhand is being able to enter certain cities in France, Germany etc.

 

The thing I find interesting is that governments are totally ignoring a recent research study done in Norway that showed Motorhomes to be environmentally conscious vehicles.

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13 hours ago, klyne said:

Anyone thinking of buying a new motorhome in the future might want to sign this petition.  https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268246

David,

I've signed the petition via your link in Caravan Talk.

 

20 minutes ago, Scania said:

The thing I find interesting is that governments are totally ignoring a recent research study done in Norway that showed Motorhomes to be environmentally conscious vehicles.

Scania,

Isn't that the way with governments though when they simply wish to raise revenue?

 

In general if it is a second vehicle (and many are) a motorhome will travel fewer miles in a year than a car, and in my experience caravan and motorhome owners frequently are more aware of the environment than many other road users. There will always be exceptions and although the emissions may be higher per mile than a car, our motorhome had been driven far fewer miles than either our cars or the trucks upon which the motorhome is based.

 

I know there is a trend away from caravans to motorhomes (patly because of driving licence restrictions) and if the government is serious about trying to reduce emissions there is a case not for increasing the road tax, but for actually reducing it for motorhome conversions, to further encourage people away from larger vehicles that are purchased for towing, and then used also as daily transport. 

 

Gordon.

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Am I right in thinking this is only on NEW motorhomes? If correct the logic does not add up as emissions on new MH's is far lower than older ones so any extra tax would logically be aimed at older vehicles surely?

This is typical ''establishment'' thinking same as Low Emission Zones all round London but OK given to build another runway at Heathrow so even more planes can be accepted. It's OK to fine vehicles for emissions but no zones for aircraft. If a referendum to leave the EU can be ignored a petition stands far less chance regardless of how many sign it. I think we call it Democracy in this country, let the peasants have their say but  just do what parliament thinks suits them.

 

 

Brian

 

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The issue for me is that this "extra tax" has been introduced quite sneakily with no prior discussion as far as I can tell.  The reality is that as it only applies to new registrations the amount of tax it will raise is relatively small so it seems it is a punitive tax on motorhomes. Also interesting is the fact that it only applies to motorhomes of 3500kgs and under. A motorhome over that weight will still enjoy an annual VED of £165 which is a bit of a nonsense. I think I would be happy to accept this new tax if it applied to the emissions of the base vehicle which would encompass all the base vehicle variants which would of course include white van man which the Government dare not upset!!! The petition currently stands at just over 8500, interesting the petition to revoke Article 50 is still gaining ground at a faster rate!!!

 

David

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It is not productive for anyone to try and make sense of any government proposal regardless of subject matter, that's how it is and always been.

After all our governments are based in another country (London) and a taxpayer funded palace (Palace of Westminster)

What could possibly go wrong???

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18 hours ago, bikerbri said:

…After all our governments are based in another country...

 

Not quite true bikerbri. From what I've seen of the antics of the UK government, they're based on another planet that speaks some unknown language! 🤣

 

Gordon: Your comment about the way governments raise revenue is very correct the world over. 

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I wonder if Gwynnedd County Council in Wales have contacted the UK Government, they don't like motorhomes either 😄

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The petition has passed the 10000 mark now so they are obliged to respond. I don't hold out any chance they will change their minds but it will be interesting to see if they say anything different. One problem I find with a lot of petitions is that the people starting them really don't think about what they are asking. Personally I would have included a lot more information and asked why it only applies to motorhomes up to 3500kgs but not to those of a higher weight. I would want to test the logic!

 

David 

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It could well be David that they don't know themselves.

Governments are often guided by ''advisors'' or ''lobby groups'' normally with a vested interest, I doubt for one second the Cabinet of Ministers thought this up themselves.

You need a brain to be capable of independent thought.

There is money in it for somebody.

 

 

Brian

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18 hours ago, klyne said:

... why it only applies to motorhomes up to 3500kgs but not to those of a higher weight...

 

 

I think this is the reason. If I understand things correctly, the way emissions were measured was according to the NEDC method. Thanks to the VW emissions scandal a while ago, it was realised that this method does not replicate real world emissions. So, the (the EU) changed the way things were measured. The new method is called WLTP. This gives higher values than the old. That being part of the reason taxes are raised. Somehow, they have managed to "bake in" EU Directive 715/2007. This only applies to Light Vehicles, that is to say, those under 3500kg's. It also answers the question of why it does not apply to older vehicles...they still use the NEDC method.

 

I may be wrong, and apologies in advance if I am, but thats my interpretation of things.

 

As an aside, this was brought into force here on September 1st., 2018. Earlier today, I saw the motorhome sales statistics for this country. During the first 6 months of this year, some manufacturers sales have dropped by over 50%!!!! At least one Company are making workers redundant. No doubt others will soon follow their lead.

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If ''Green'' taxes are effective why is climate change becoming ever more serious.

It's one huge con. Direct tax increases damage election prospects, Green taxes raise necessary revenue in a more 'acceptable' way.

The WLTP method is the current favourite with the NEDC held in reserve for when another tax increase is deemed necessary.

How long before another named method is invented to replace both, and so it goes on.

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Consider this. Currently, the greenies are moaning about the amount of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. They say (petrol engined) cars are the major producer of it. Maybe they are, maybe thats true, maybe its not. All that is needed to significantly reduce the CO2 emissions of virtually any reasonable modern car is a hacksaw and length of pipe...Not that the ywill allow it.

 

Green taxes are nothing more than a way of stealth taxing "Average Joe."

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On 29/08/2019 at 15:20, Scania said:

As an aside, this was brought into force here on September 1st., 2018. Earlier today, I saw the motorhome sales statistics for this country. During the first 6 months of this year, some manufacturers sales have dropped by over 50%!!!! At least one Company are making workers redundant. No doubt others will soon follow their lead.

Maybe the writing is on the wall for us all then :(

image.png

But of course, there is an alternative way of reducing overall emissions that do not involve taxing the private vehicle at all . . .

image.png

 

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Of course, as soon as they have taxed motorhomes so much nobody can afford to run them, and forced us all onto passenger aircraft, they'll tax those out of all proportion as well...

 

I'd better not mention that they are looking into a km tax here for all vehicles just in case it gives Westminster new ideas....Drat! I just mentioned it!😅

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Political Correctness was the death of not only Freedom of Speech but also Freedom of Choice, once on the popular bandwagon (of the day) driven by lobbyists and activists our political leaders will adopt any policy to appear supportive of 'responsible' legislation.

Which should go some way in answering the points made by Scania & Gordon, if the general population of the UK were fully minded regarding climate change then why isn't the Green Party in government running the country with a massive majority??

Talk the talk, don't walk the walk !!!

Before too long it will not matter what engine you have in your MH (NEW OR OLD) it will be banned from ever increasing ''Zones''

Today Euro 6 is considered acceptable, but kid yourself not, for how much longer??

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While I am in favour of collectively minimising our impact on the environment, we all know that governments need to raise money in order to remain in control. A simple and fair tax is perfectly acceptable to most people (the old fashioned tythe) if used in order to benefit society as a whole BUT most governments unfortunately having tasted power, in many cases like to retain this and so find increasingly diverse ways to raise capital, thus while driving around in "company cars" and flying worldwide, all paid for by us, impose taxes that target certain areas of the population under the umbrella guise of it being good for the environment, or by targeting a minority group that cannot answer back. There appears to be an anti-leisure vehicle policy a work today; first by changing the driving licence rules so that a proportion of new drivers are having their choice of car and caravan outfit restricted, and now by taxing motorhome owners to a point where many will seriously consider whether it is worth buying one. We have seen the demise of many caravan manufacturers over the years, and I predict the same will happen to MH manufacturers in the years to come.

As a matter of interest the government has responded to the petition and this response has been posted on our sister site Caravan Talk.

As always; unless otherwise stated, my posts are my personal thoughts and have the same standing as any other approved member of Motorhome Talk.

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That Petition Response is an awfully big plaster Gordon but failed to cover ALL the cracks.

I think the upshot is ''Tough- its happening regardless''

Government thinking often defies logic and promotes discrimination. As a life long biker I have seen this aimed at my chosen lifestyle countless times.

Some years ago new riders faced a mountain of new legislation designed to discourage ownership under the banner of 'safety & training' whereby having once overcome the barriers and passed a test they were further restricted by BHP (Brake Horse Power)and limited to engine cc. However no such restrictions are faced by young drivers having passed a test, classic example being pass a test in a 1 litre car and next day but a 200mph roadburner as your first car limited only by financial considerations.

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16 hours ago, bikerbri said:

I think the upshot is ''Tough- its happening regardless''

'Twas ever thus IMO where governments are concerned, because "they know best" (or not?).

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MotorhomeTax2019.jpg

There's a bit more information linked to from here on the home page. Motorhome owners can now expect to pay significantly more in road tax if they buy a new motorhome in the UK and one wonders how much of a negative effect this will have on the leisure industry as a whole. Fewer new motorhome purchases mean a smaller workforce needed to produce them, over time a reduction in motorhome ownership will equate to less money being spent for campsites, on local attractions, and in the shorter term little or no reduction in pollution as owners keep their older motorhomes running for more years than planned, so it appears the government have scored an own goal with this decision. These are the facts but unfortunately the petition against this tax increase with 14,907 has been closed prior to the forthcoming election.

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I noticed that the Petition had been closed due to the General Election. Shame really as I thought the nearly 15000 signatures was pretty good going and no doubt would have grown had there been more time. I suspect there are many motorhomers who might have signed the petition who are not followers of forums or social media so I think we did quite well to get to that figure. I was disappointed in the response from some on Caravan Talk who are caravanners who thought that it was a perfectly fair way of moving forward. It is a shame that they don't have empathy with their fellow campers! What ever you think of Brexit the whole process has knocked the stuffing out of the UK so hardly surprising manufacturers are taking measures to cut back on production. It is also far from certain how it will pan out in the next five years even if there is a decision made one way or the other. 

 

David

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Unless I am mistaken I believe this is part of EU legislation that the UK government has agreed to adopt without truly investigating the impact it will have on the UK's leisure industry as a whole, from motorhome manufacturers to owners, and hence to campsite owners and others who depend on visiting tourists with motorhomes. Under conditions defined by EU law, the Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP) laboratory tests used to measure fuel consumption and CO2 emissions for passenger cars are being applied to all motorhomes, including those derived from commercial vehicles.

 

Over the first six years of life owners of 2019 and later Motorhomes can expect to pay the following tax:-

WLTP Engine (Euro 6D/2 newer, cleaner engine) £2,135 + £465 + £465 + £465 + £465 + £465 = £4,460

 

Existing pre-2019 motorhomes with older engines will continue at the present tax rate:-

Heavy Duty Emissions Engine £165 + £165 + £165 + £165 + £165 + £165 = £990

 

While not denying that Brexit has split the country and had an impact on many areas of society, I do not believe that it has anything to do with this particular imposition by our government and sadly I believe, we are stuck with increased tax for new motorhomes regardless of whether we remain in the EU or not. The adoption of driving licence changes has already had an impact on the caravan industry, now after first targeting 4x4 owners by increasing tax the government appear to be targeting motorhome owners as well. I do wonder if there is a (not very well) hidden agenda by successive governments to kill off vehicle manufacturing and ownership in the UK altogether. In transport terms the UK has certainly peaked and is now on the decline following the discontinuation of the cross channel hovercraft service, and the end of Concorde services, and very limited UK designed car production.

Motorhomes - EU legislation WLTP.pdf

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I think it would be fair to say that most, if not all, MH owners have a pretty good idea how often & when their MH is likely to be on the road rather than the drive so with a little thought and motivation it can be possible to severely restrict the impact of the new tax by simply declaring a SORN when confident useage is unlikely. A change of habits on MH use is of course necessary and you can declare a SORN & Restore usage as often as you like easily online. The low average annual miles of the majority of MH's should and could be turned to advantage whereas in the past it was not really an issue. Weekend & Day trips are of course the biggest victim if usually taken on a whim but the alternative is paying extortionate tax to park up on the drive. Just a thought for really very little effort........................................................................................

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