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Hello everyone have not posted in a long time as i have now retired and just dont seem to have the time I had when I was at work. My question is does anyone drag a Skoda Fabia behind their MH on an Aframe and if so what is your towing vehicle. My vehicle is a 2004 Autotrail Cheyenne 660 2.8 cc and the legend plate under the bonnet states 3500kg and 5500kg but my log book states 3800 so not quite sure of my train weight. Thinking its 1700kg as I think the 3800kg refs to laden weight, the MH is taxed as PLG.

Hope the question not to complicated and any info most welcome.

Cheers

Trevsmate

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Is there an 'Autotrail' weight sticker anywhere. I have a 2004 2.3 Ducato, like yours it says 3500 and 5500 under the bonnet. But just inside the hab door there is an  Sticker giving the weights as 3400 and 3400, so even though I have a tow bar fitted I'm not legally allowed to tow anything. I think the tow bar was fitted to protect the long rear over hang from grounding damage.

 

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Trooper

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Is there an 'Autotrail' weight sticker anywhere. I have a 2004 2.3 Ducato, like yours it says 3500 and 5500 under the bonnet. But just inside the hab door there is an Sticker giving the weights as 3400 and 3400, so even though I have a tow bar fitted I'm not legally allowed to tow anything. I think the tow bar was fitted to protect the long rear over hang from grounding damage.

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Trooper

Or anything you tow is subtracted off the payload and gvw. Tow a trailer of 400 kg you would loose 400 kg off the payload .

TM

As said the coach build plate supersedes the donor vehicle plate . If you can't find the AT plate you need to check with them .Older AT are not the best MH for towing figures .

Dave

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Thanks for your reply trooper but you just confused me a little more so i rang Autotrail and a young man by the name of Paul was most helpful he told me my gross laden weight was 3850kg with a train weight of 5200kg leaving me with a towed vehicle weight of 1350kg max so now my search begins.

I would be surprised if your set up cant tow anything and i cant see a tow bar being fitted to protect the rear so a quick ring to Autotrail would give you the answer.

Is there an 'Autotrail' weight sticker anywhere. I have a 2004 2.3 Ducato, like yours it says 3500 and 5500 under the bonnet. But just inside the hab door there is an  Sticker giving the weights as 3400 and 3400, so even though I have a tow bar fitted I'm not legally allowed to tow anything. I think the tow bar was fitted to protect the long rear over hang from grounding damage.

 

0ac2204d-e8be-485f-8356-fed3370f45fc_zps

 

Trooper

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A vin plate is indicated when a vehicle can not legally tow by the Maximum train weight being blank the vin plate showing 3400 kg gvw and the Maximum train weight or combined weight at 3400 kg is saying you can legally tow but you would need to reduce the payload to match the trailer weight as it can not be exceeded.

Some towbars are added motorhomes to carry bike racks to save mounting on the rear wall and drilling holes also as said to protect the rear.

Dave

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Thanks for your reply trooper but you just confused me a little more so i rang Autotrail and a young man by the name of Paul was most helpful he told me my gross laden weight was 3850kg with a train weight of 5200kg leaving me with a towed vehicle weight of 1350kg max so now my search begins.

I would be surprised if your set up cant tow anything and i cant see a tow bar being fitted to protect the rear so a quick ring to Autotrail would give you the answer.

Sorry for the mixup Trevsmate, my bus is an 'Elnagh' not an 'Autotrail'. The Towbar has grounded quite heavily on a number of occasions which I'm certain would have resulted in Skirt damage had it not been there.

 

Bike Rack is fitted to the Rear wall of the Bus, not on the Towbar.

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Well I`ve just taken the plunge and bought a Hyundai i10 as the weight is well within my limits, so the search is on for a Aframe dealer to fit the required modification, now as I live in the Nottingham area I have sought out a couple of suppliers Towtal in Stoke or SVS in Chesterfield as anyone had dealings with either of these companies and if so what did they think of them or could you recommend some where else within reasonable distance.

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Let me say at the outset that I admit to being biased against using an A-Frame to tow a car behind our motorhome.

 

My reasoning:-

1. I may wish to tow various cars behind our motorhome.

2. I do not wish to modify a small car in any way.

3. There can be increased front wheel bearings and tyre wear on the car being towed.

4. There is an increased probability wear on the front steering mechanics.

5. Reversing the outfit is "interesting" and usually scrubs the tyres of the towed car.

6. The ignition key has to be left in the towed car to release the steering lock while on tow.

7. Resale value of the modified car may be affected.

8. While at the moment A-Frames are tolerated in the UK, they should be accepted in other EU countries providing they are used with a UK registered motorhome and the car conversion was carried out in the UK but try explaining that to the local police of a country where they are not legal for their own residents.

9. Finally I prefer to have a car trailer that can also be used to carry alternative loads.  

 

In my opinion the things in favour of using an A-Frame are that it is light and compact enough to make storage easy, and it imposes only a minute noseweight onto the motorhome when compared with a normal trailer.

 

If you do go ahead with the A-frame option the links below may help:-

Smart-Tow http://www.smart-tow.com

LNB Leisure http://www.lnbleisure.co.uk/index.php/2 and http://www.lnbleisure.co.uk/index.php/6

Unibrake servo towing systems http://www.unibrake.co.uk/motorhome-a-frames

Car-A-Tow folding towing frames http://www.caratow.com

Although a little dated now, this is also worth a read http://www.towtal.co.uk/motorhome-a-frames/aframes-2014-truth-so-far

Gordon.

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Let me say at the outset that I admit to being biased against using an A-Frame to tow a car behind our motorhome.

 

My reasoning:-

1. I may wish to tow various cars behind our motorhome.

2. I do not wish to modify a small car in any way.

3. There can be increased front wheel bearings and tyre wear on the car being towed.

4. There is an increased probability wear on the front steering mechanics.

5. Reversing the outfit is "interesting" and usually scrubs the tyres of the towed car.

6. The ignition key has to be left in the towed car to release the steering lock while on tow.

7. Resale value of the modified car may be affected.

8. While at the moment A-Frames are tolerated in the UK, they should be accepted in other EU countries providing they are used with a UK registered motorhome and the car conversion was carried out in the UK but try explaining that to the local police of a country where they are not legal for their own residents.

9. Finally I prefer to have a car trailer that can also be used to carry alternative loads.  

 

In my opinion the things in favour of using an A-Frame are that it is light and compact enough to make storage easy, and it imposes only a minute noseweight onto the motorhome when compared with a normal trailer.

 

If you do go ahead with the A-frame option the links below may help:-

Smart-Tow http://www.smart-tow.com

LNB Leisure http://www.lnbleisure.co.uk/index.php/2 and http://www.lnbleisure.co.uk/index.php/6

Unibrake servo towing systems http://www.unibrake.co.uk/motorhome-a-frames

Car-A-Tow folding towing frames http://www.caratow.com

Although a little dated now, this is also worth a read http://www.towtal.co.uk/motorhome-a-frames/aframes-2014-truth-so-far

Gordon.

Thanks for your input Gordon and i take on board what you are saying but i have been down the road of trailer and car but my MH just does not have the capacity to tow both unlike yours which i believe would pull a chieftain tank, anyway thanks for the links.

Jeff

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One point is the brochure weight for a vehicle is its kerbweight or mass in service includes a driver at 68 kg and a 90% fuel . So not including a driver and a quarter tank can reduce the figure by nearly 100 kg .

 

 

Dave

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Thanks for all the replys but I am now happily towing with the AFrame and wondering why I never had one from the on set, tows like a dream and had no problems so far. 

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May I stick my little bit in, have you checked that the Skoda is towable for any distance, for instance if the vehicle is an automatic there will be a speed/distance restriction, some vehicles also have a similar restriction for manual gearboxes, ring a dealer they will know. 

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6 hours ago, TREVSMATE said:

Thanks for all the replys but I am now happily towing with the AFrame and wondering why I never had one from the on set, tows like a dream and had no problems so far. 

Being devil's advocate for a minute... Have you tried to reverse it yet? If this is not possible there could be "issues" if you meet another vehicle on a narrow road, especially if that vehicle is another MH towing with an A-Frame :blush:

Just my thoughts...

Gordon.

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After leaving the armed services I did work for a time for one of the then large motoring organisations, reversing with an A frame is always interesting, I'll also add that after quite a lot of discussion at a higher level than I opinion was always divided as to whether an A frame is a car on tow or an unbraked trailer, even with the development of a braking system a think the argument still remains is it a car on tow ? 

My personal opinion I gave up towing a caravan for the freedom of using a motorhome. 

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On 04/11/2016 at 17:28, cyclocara said:

May I stick my little bit in, have you checked that the Skoda is towable for any distance, for instance if the vehicle is an automatic there will be a speed/distance restriction, some vehicles also have a similar restriction for manual gearboxes, ring a dealer they will know. 

Hi Cyclocara I am actually towing a Hyundai i10 which is manual and did some searching to make sure was okay to tow and so far no problems. It would appear that electronic auto gearboxes are the ones that can be towed but please always do your research before going ahead. 

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On 04/11/2016 at 22:03, Gordon said:

Being devil's advocate for a minute... Have you tried to reverse it yet? If this is not possible there could be "issues" if you meet another vehicle on a narrow road, especially if that vehicle is another MH towing with an A-Frame :blush:

Just my thoughts...

Gordon.

Hi Gordon it's good to see you like to keep the posts active,but regards the reversing issue was towing a caravan for many years and the only time I had to reverse was on to a pitch now having said that the first outing with car in tow was to High Onn Staffs very narrow roads in that area and on my way back met a tractor with trailer but I stood my ground and he was just able to squeeze by so close call there, so I guess I will just deal with the situation should it arise. Maybe I will go to local supermarket car park and give reversing a try..

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On 05/11/2016 at 10:43, cyclocara said:

After leaving the armed services I did work for a time for one of the then large motoring organisations, reversing with an A frame is always interesting, I'll also add that after quite a lot of discussion at a higher level than I opinion was always divided as to whether an A frame is a car on tow or an unbraked trailer, even with the development of a braking system a think the argument still remains is it a car on tow ? 

My personal opinion I gave up towing a caravan for the freedom of using a motorhome. 

Interesting one this as there are many differences of opinion but my stand is that it is a braked trailer and you must display reflective triangles to the rear,now was told by the person who fitted the A Frame not to put an on tow sign on the rear as that would open up an whole new debate. 

 

Trevsmate 

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Leaving aside any legality discussion for the moment, I have been looking at this promotional video clip and it would appear that the front wheels of the toad will scrub when reversing around a corner on an A-Frame.

I fully accept that an A-frame is lightweight and easy to store on site but given that the car needs to be modified and reversing with an A-frame is unsatisfactory in my opinion, these issues combined with the fact that I tow two different cars behind our RV means that personally I have opted to tow our car on a bespoke trailer.

 

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Those are good examples Gordon, I did most of my A frame towing with a 110 Landrover, rubbish lock though, a bit of added pressure the car owner was almost always present. :):) 

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On 05/11/2016 at 10:43, cyclocara said:

After leaving the armed services I did work for a time for one of the then large motoring organisations, reversing with an A frame is always interesting, I'll also add that after quite a lot of discussion at a higher level than I opinion was always divided as to whether an A frame is a car on tow or an unbraked trailer, even with the development of a braking system a think the argument still remains is it a car on tow ? 

My personal opinion I gave up towing a caravan for the freedom of using a motorhome. 

 

 

Unbraked trailer ? Would be impossible for a car on tow with a A frame as most cars are plated with gross weight over 750 kg which requires that all wheels in contact with the road are brakes .

 

This is a grey area here in the UK and is accepted but is it legal ?

 

 

Dave

 

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On 11/5/2016 at 10:43, cyclocara said:

After leaving the armed services I did work for a time for one of the then large motoring organisations, reversing with an A frame is always interesting, I'll also add that after quite a lot of discussion at a higher level than I, opinion was always divided as to whether an A frame is a car on tow or an unbraked trailer, even with the development of a braking system a think the argument still remains is it a car on tow ? 

So long as there is debate at higher levels, then it isn't worth the risk and  my opinion is that we should all play safe and place any small car on a bespoke trailer when behind a MH as (so long as the trailer is legal) there is absolutely no risk of breaking the rules then, because the car is simply classed as a load on a trailer.

People have been stopped and fined when abroad for using an A-Frame so even if we can get away with it in the UK, I wouldn't tempt fate.

 

21 hours ago, CommanderDave said:

Unbraked trailer ? Would be impossible for a car on tow with a A frame as most cars are plated with gross weight over 750 kg which requires that all wheels in contact with the road are brakes .

Agreed...

Without looking up the exact government legislation that covers this, I believe that any "trailer" fitted with brakes must have those brakes working so if the car is classed as a trailer, (and I believe this to be the case when on an A-Frame) then regardless of weight, the brakes must be operable. Only if the weight is less than 750 Kg is it permissible not to fit brakes and clearly this is not an option with a car.

Gordon.

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